John Meadows - Advanced Bodybuilding Strategies - Dr. Ken Kinakin Podcast 5
===
[00:00:00] John Meadows is a world class bodybuilding coach. He's now become a great football coach. He's an entrepreneur with different types of supplementation online courses. He's been at Swiss so many times, and I really appreciate all the years that he's come and, you know, shared all this different knowledge and, you know, it's just fantastic to have him here to give his wisdom.
So let me bring John on here. John, thank you so much for being part of Swiss 2021. I'm really, really happy. Great That you're here really grateful and I've always cherished your authenticity, your transparency as far as bodybuilding, like you're one of the few people that actually stepped up when you know, we did the steroid panel and talked about different things, you know, as far as the truth, you know, as far as that, you know, you still have to train hard, you still have to diet.
And yet there was that elephant in the room that, you know, we went after in 2016, 2018. And I know you've done some different sessions [00:01:00] on that. Yeah. But I mean, your, your, your knowledge, your understanding and your ability to get people into peak shape is just incredible. And you were mentioning before that you had a number of people go to Olympia and you got two first places and two second places, which is unbelievable.
I mean, that's just testament of, of your great knowledge and coaching. So thank you so much for being here. Well, I appreciate the kind words and honestly. I remember when I did my first Swiss and I remember when you handed me a check to present. I remember thinking I should be paying you like this is an honor to be a part of this.
Like, you are a pioneer. In our, in an, in an industry, I don't even want to say, I don't want to say our industry, cause it's much bigger. Um, everything you do, you're, you're a true pioneer. You're loved by everybody. So the pleasure is all mine, Ken. Oh, thank you so much. Can you give us a little bit of a biography as far as, you know, how you got through and to where you are right now, a little bit of your [00:02:00] adventure?
Well, I have kind of a crazy background. Um, I'll give you kind of the short story of it, or we could be here for hours. Um, I, you know, I, I was one of those guys and I opened up a muscle magazine and I saw pictures of Lee Haney from a 1985 Mr. Olympia. And, um, I could tell you the top 10. I was actually with one of your buddies, Milo Sarchev this weekend.
And we were, we were telling stories and I said, you know, here was my top 10 and here was the top 10 at 85 Olympia. And I ran down the top 10 and he was like, you remember that? And I was like, Oh yeah, that was the year they got me in a body building when I was 13 years old. So when I was young at 13 years old, I competed in my first contest at 13 years old.
Now my kids are 12. And I can't imagine them doing a bodybuilding contest next year. Like that's crazy. So I was crazy from the start. Like I wanted to be a bodybuilder only because I love the sport. I was in a situation where I just love the sport. Nobody was [00:03:00] picking on me. I wasn't trying to bully people.
Nobody was bullying me. I wasn't too skinny. I wasn't too fat. I was just a normal kid and I just loved bodybuilding and I dedicated my life to it. A good portion of my life. Eventually, I figured out there wasn't a whole lot of money in bodybuilding initially, and I went to work in the corporate world. I eventually.
Did very well. JPMorgan chase. Uh, at one point I was running their largest projects in the company. Um, Had a really good corporate career and the whole time I was coaching people on the side I had, you know, typically 30 to 40 clients in addition to Doing that full time and uh, I transitioned out of that in 2012 and just went straight into Coaching in our industry opened up my website.
Um I've probably wrote more training programs than anybody in the industry. I've kept probably, I've probably wrote 40 to 50 really, really detailed programs in the last 11 years. In fact, Dave Tate and I just put our first joint one out there a couple months ago, and it's done really, really well. [00:04:00] So I've always enjoyed the training part and thinking through.
Training and sequencing exercises and how do you go hard but not hurt yourself? How do you go really hard? How do you know when you're going too hard? Like the training aspect has always been fascinating to me. I love it. I love training. I love talking about training Um, so that's been a big part of my life.
I I certainly opened a supplement company four years ago Uh granted supplements. We uh, we doubled in size last year. It's a I wouldn't call it a large company. I wouldn't call it a small company. It's a medium, medium sized company. Um, we've done, we've done very well. And most recently, Ken, I, I've started coaching football.
Football is a passion of mine. My kids have been playing now. This will be their fourth year. They're 12 years old going into seventh grade. Um, I'm happy to say the team I coached last year won a championship here. So, uh, we have a lot of fun, man. The kids are great. People don't give kids enough credit for what they can learn, how fast they can learn it and what they can do.
And, you know, I like to really challenge them and [00:05:00] I like to really push them. And, and you, when you do that, you, you know, you give them a chance to grow. And you can see them grow and you know, from month one, a month, two to month, three, they're different kids. They're totally different. It's amazing. And then their parents see that and they're like, wow, I didn't know my kid could do that.
But, um, so coaching is a joy of mine. I love it. I love specifically working at that junior high kind of level for now. Um, I'm an offensive coordinator, so that's kind of it in a nutshell. Well, you know, it's just amazing that you've done so much, but you've also integrated a lot of different aspects. Like, I mean, you went in from coaching bodybuilding.
coaching football and especially, you know, uh, educating. And I think the big thing with bodybuilding and even in powerlifting is that it's a character development. You know, what you look like on stage is one thing, but the, the, the lessons that you learn in the gym, as far as not giving up, showing up the resilience, you know, the, the discipline in order, the focus, the camaraderie, you know, and [00:06:00] to be able to put your mind to something and get it done.
Regardless if you win or lose, you know, it's always nice to win But I mean, it's still really important as far as learning that and now you're able to Give that to the kids, you know, which is I think just so so amazing One of the things that i'm really interested in is that how do you do online coaching properly?
I think it's one of the most complicated things and people don't give it enough respect You know, there are people out there that do the cut and paste, you know, and everyone gets the same program I know you do detailed programs based on Who it is, their age, how they respond. So what are some of the strategies that some of these personal trainers and strengths coaches could learn from you as far as building proper, uh, programming?
Well, I think there's some, uh, really basic things to start with. Very basic kind of one on one stuff. One of them is a good questionnaire, you know, [00:07:00] for example, Are you allergic to any kind of food? Are you allergic to any foods? Well, you're allergic to uh, I don't know eggs Okay. Well, i'm not probably not going to put eggs in your diet.
Um, you know, what kind of foods do you like? Well, what kind of foods do you don't do you not like so i'm probably not going to load your diet down with food You don't like um, you know, what's your what's your life like, you know, how many hours a week do you work? When do you train like you have to have a sense of a person's?
schedule, the pressure they're under because that stuff can all impact, you know, their, their ability to train hard and recover. Um, so a really well thought out questionnaire is a great place to start and you start there and then you can start to think about what makes sense for this person. Uh, cookie cutter nutrition diets are just bogus.
Like that's just a bogus thing. Um, And so that's where I start. It's let me see what, let me find out everything I can about this person so that when I'm building their program, you know, people, it's funny because people get back their program for [00:08:00] their diet from either meal plan. And they're like, Oh, wow.
These are the foods I told you I liked. And you don't have any of the bad stuff on here. Like usually I just get. You know, just eat chicken and rice. I'm like, yeah, I mean, that's the way it should be. But it's funny because people are surprised by that because they're so used to a really low level service and you know, that's fundamental stuff.
And then as you go, so you have to understand more basics. How are people feeling? Is their strength going up? Is their strength going down? Are they recovering? Are they not recovering? Let's say they're not recovering. Okay, now you have another set of questions you have to ask. How are you sleeping? What's your stress levels like?
What's your family life like? Are you under a lot of pressure? You know, are you getting your period workout nutrition in? You know, so it's like a fact finding mission. You know, you ask one question and depending on the answer you get, you remember those, you remember those choose your adventure books where you could pick like, If you want to go here, go to this page.
And if you want to go here, go to that page. And that's kind of how I, [00:09:00] I love those books and that that's kind of how I look at it, like you ask a question and they give you an answer. So then you go to another set of questions and you have to get really good at that, to understand where the person is and what's going on in their life and where they're at, and that kind of gives you a construct of what you should be doing.
And then also can. Listen, I'm not God. So I make mistakes and you have to have an open mind. You have to be humble because you know, I have made a lot of mistakes, both myself coaching, um, I've been doing this for many years and what some of the best lessons I've learned are from the mistakes I've made.
There's been times where I probably push people too hard. There's been times where I didn't push them hard enough. I didn't give them enough credit. I've made mistakes on both ends of that spectrum. There's times when I took a mentality of, you know, I'm going to treat everybody equal because I felt like that was the right approach because that's how I see people do it on TV.
Well, I treat everybody the same, [00:10:00] but really it takes an individualized approach. And that's what I learned over the years was, you know, for example, basic communication, there's some people I can beat them up and be hard on and they thrive on that. There's some people that I can't. It knocks them down. It doesn't build them up.
They don't respond well. So you have, the more you get to know someone on a personal level, the more effective your coaching can become because the more comfortable they get talking to you and sharing information, they'll give you good information. Like for example, if they think, well, he's going to bite my head off.
If I told him I went out and had, you know, a piece of cake last night, or if they believe in you and you have a good relationship, they might say, Hey, John, I got to tell you this, man, I did this and I can go, okay, understand what, here's what we're going to do now. So I think establishing that relationship with people really, really takes you a long way.
And as I've coached over the years, Ken, that's the one thing I'd like to tell the young people is you will not believe how much better your coaching is. When the relationship with that person is better, [00:11:00] when they're not just a number to you, when they're more than a number to you, when they feel like, man, I feel like I'm his only client.
When they feel like that, you'll talk more, you'll communicate better, the information you get will be better, then you can give better instructions. So that's really big too, you know, you can't replace in person training, but the reality is, is you can't always be in the same someplace with people. I You know, if you do it at my level, you just can't, you know, you do a lot of stuff remotely.
And, you know, I, what I try to do is I try to have people fly in or, you know, I go see them, you know, depends on what's going on. So you do get to see them. You continue, you try to do that as much as you can. But I think in that relationship. Take you a long way. I agree. I agree. And you know, my whole purpose of, of doing these summits is, you know, how do you build professional relationships that may lead to a referral, you know, at the very beginning when I started, you know, I was like, how do you build, you [00:12:00] know, professional referrals, you know, relationships and talking to different people, they said, You know what?
The relationship is the most important and it may or may not lead to a referral, but I mean from a business standpoint, you know, it's always important. How do you do get business? How do you, how do you get business? And part of it is just number one, just be a nice person. Number two, be authentic. Like, I mean, a lot of patients come in and they say, you know, I, I, I explained what I'm going to do and I'm up front.
I said, listen, If I'm able to help you, I'll let you know. If I'm not able to help you, I'll let you know that too, and I'll refer you on to someone. And a lot of times I'll refer out because it may need a surgical intervention. Or there may be someone that has a better technique than I, so I have no problem referring, you know, and when I, when I, when I tell people I'm doing these, you know, uh, presentations and, you know, I ask them, you know, you know, I'm going to be interviewing John Meadows and like, oh, awesome, wouldn't it be great to get a referral from John Meadows?
Oh my God. And it'd be [00:13:00] awesome. You know, so what does it take to get a referral of a client? Maybe they're in a different city and they need someone in person. You know, what, what, what are your standards that you're looking for? An individual that you would say, you know what, I feel comfortable. You're in good hands with this person.
Go for it. Yeah. Number one, man, is here's how I think about referrals. It's a reflection on me. So if I send somebody to a knucklehead. Guess who, that, guess who looks like a knucklehead? I do. So it better be somebody I believe in. You know, I had a real interesting one happen, um, is about two months ago. So I have a girl, Missy Truscott.
She's Miss International. She's number one in the world. And she told me she was getting ready to have carpal tunnel surgery and surgery on one of her pronators. So I said, Well, before you do that, let me have you talk to somebody I know it was it was Dr. Serrano. Oh good. So, so I you know, I didn't try to diagnose it [00:14:00] myself.
That's beyond the scope of my knowledge. So she got on a FaceTime call with Dr. Serrano who did me a favor and he did some things with her lat. And her carpal tunnel pain went away and her elbow pain went away. And then see, instead of having, instead of having surgery the next day or two, she's healed from the stuff he showed her.
She's healed. He had her husband do some stuff with her lat and it fixed her. And that's a great example of someone that I believe in that I know it's going to do a nice job. And really that's what it comes down to. It comes down to. Someone, you know, the problem is always the network. Like I'm always trying to understand the network and where people are, you know, because there's not a lot of people, like, I don't know doctors in every city, for example, there's only so many people I know, but I mean, that's kind of really what it boils down to for me, can somebody, and then, and then once they have good results, it's okay, this is a great person to refer people to.
Now I'm just going to start pumping people to them, you know, so, [00:15:00] um, You know, that's kind of how, kind of how I do it. And the other thing is, is it's a referral of a referral. Like, so like if I said, Hey, Eric Serrano, do you have somebody that can do X or Y? And he goes, yeah, sure. And if he gives me somebody, then that's another layer to our network that I think is important.
You know, if someone said to me, you know, do you know anybody that works on the chiropractors, then what your name's going to come up, right? Like, um, you know, I don't know if you can go talk to Ken. I don't know what you're going to do, what you can do, but that's going to happen. And so, for me, it's about the people I've met.
It's the network and it's about trust. And if someone burns me one time, they're not going to get any more referrals from me. Um, but if they do a nice job, I'm going to start sending people their way all the time. Um, and you know, the other part, the other part, okay, there's a skill proficiency. But it's how are, how do they treat people?
And you mentioned being just being a good person. [00:16:00] I don't do business with people that are Um, pardon my language, but are just turds like I don't like to send people to other people who are cocky and arrogant Um, I want people to feel like they're taking care of now. That's maybe that's short sighted on my part.
It may be But I don't want someone coming back to me and saying, man, he treated me bad. Why'd you send me to him? Like he treated me like, you know, he was a jerk. So skilled, knowledgeable, proficient people that are good people will always be the route I send people. Yeah. You know, I think it's so important that trainers really understand that.
Cause you know, I get a number of times, a personal trainer or strength coach will come into my clinic and drop off cards and say, you know, can you have Dr. Canak and just refer everyone to me. And number one, I don't know who you are. I don't know what you do. I don't know how you apply it. And so it's really hard.
So it's, you know, if, if, if we can sort of build that relationship and understanding, and even more important for me is that I need to know that you're [00:17:00] really, really good at one thing. I, you know, I've, I've seen too many people, you know, especially the younger trainers. Because you just haven't been around long enough to understand the nuances, to get someone to a high level, especially when you're dealing, you know, I deal with a lot of world champions and.
High level athletes and, and even not even that, just, just, you know, moms and pops and, you know, kids that, you know, they really want to, you know, excel in whatever they're doing. And so, you know, you mentioned that, you know, when you, when you get into it, you, you get obsessed and with football, you know, how, how many, uh, seminars did you go to for football?
Oh, I've done 49 clinics this year already. Which is, which is what you need. Like, I mean, In order to be outstanding, you need to do outstanding things. Like, I mean, I've seen doc, I love muscle testing. You've seen me do it. And, you know, I've been to 120 David leaf seminar weekends. You know, I told David [00:18:00] that, and you know, and David goes and you know, David well enough, he says, well.
Either I'm really good or you're really stupid, you know, I go, I'll go with the former, but I mean, that's what it takes. Cause you know, I'll hear the same thing from David, but from a different perspective. And when you deal with high level people, you can't pick everything up. Like, I mean, to spend a weekend with you.
Oh my God. You know, it's like drinking out of a fire hose. For you to basically, you know, get all that information or Dave Tate or JL or a Matt Wenning or Eric Serrano. Like you spend time with him. It's like, where the hell did you get that? And he's got three papers to back himself up. So the whole focus is that, you know, we need to level up.
And do you find the same thing that trainers and strength coaches? Need to become, uh, create a niche, but also what does it take to, to become outstanding in this, in this industry? [00:19:00] So one of the challenges I see can, as I see a lot of the guys coming in, like in my world coaching and they try to know everything they try to just be, I'm all knowledgeable.
I know everything, you know, I might, I might have someone, you know, let's say someone asked him. I have scapular winging. How do I fix that? So they go to Google and they're like, okay, scapular winging. What do I do here? Rather than saying, you know what, I'm not the right guy for that, but I'll find someone who is, you know, I had a girl.
Um, I talked to, I met at, uh, an event. Two weeks ago, that's 17 years old and she's squatting 400 pounds. And, and I saw it on her videos. Um, and she showed me her videos on Instagram and, and she was legitimately squatting 400 pounds with perfect form. So she asked me about her career and her mom was with her.
And I think a lot of guys in my position would have said, you need to come train with [00:20:00] me, I can help you. Do you know what I said? I said, you got to talk to Dave Tate. Yeah. Like I have got to connect you with Dave Tate. Dave Tate is the expert in this. So I think to answer your question, Ken, the first thing you have to do as a coach is really truly humble yourself and figure out what it is you do know.
And you don't have to know everything. You don't have to know everything I know about bodybuilding and Dave knows about in JL and the guy Matt winning and Serrano like, in fact, you're not going to know everything they know that's impossible. So you've got to get good at something, though, you know, I'd rather you'd be really good at one thing than being kind of mediocre at 20 things, you know, so get really, really good at something.
Dive into it. Just. Put all your heart and passion into it. And then the things that are outside the scope of that, find people who are great at that and build your network. Like it sounds simple, but there's so many guys in particular that are so ego driven, that are [00:21:00] so scared to say, you know what, I'm really not sure.
I don't have a good answer on that, but you know what, I'll do that. If I'm not, if I even have any hesitation, Hey, you know what? That's beyond my scope of knowledge. Let me send you to somebody who knows. Yeah. You know, it's so important to know your. You have to have boundaries. You have to know your scope of practice and what you're really good at, and also what you're passionate about.
Like, I mean, that's part of it. What people pick up, Is your enthusiasm, your passion for different things that you truly enjoy. And it just comes out, you know, so, and that's, and that's the, um, a lot of people are looking for what's the fad and what, what will work, you know, as far as from a business perspective, problem being is that it'll probably also go away in a very short period of time.
We see that with media, you know, you've been around long enough. When I first started Swiss, we started with VHS tapes, sending those out. And then it went to [00:22:00] DVDs, and then it went to online, and then it went to HTML5, you know, streaming. So, I'm sending the same information out four different ways in only 20 years.
We've gone from LP records, and that was destroyed literally within about, I don't know, three years. And all of a sudden, cassettes were big, and then that went away, and then CDs, and then that went away, and now it's just online. So the main thing is that find what is working for yourself. But the passion, what are some strategies that you found?
I have different ways of looking at different things, but to, for someone, for a trainer or a strength coach or a health professional to find that passionate thing that, you know, what really fires them up, what are some strategies that you would recommend for those people? Well, I think you got to try a lot of different things.
You know, I think some people get kind of, They get kind of this idea that they want to do something because it looks cool. And then when they did, maybe they get into it, maybe they don't, but it just [00:23:00] kind of maybe looks cool. So they go down that path and then they figure out, eh, I mean, this is okay. Um, you know, like in what I do, there is the potential to make a lot of money, for example.
So there'll be young guys come in and say, well. I wouldn't, I just want to make a lot of money. So then they'll coach, but they're not really into it. They're doing the cookie cutter plans. They're doing all those kinds of things that you don't really want to happen. And you know, you, you come to a point where you really know deep down inside what's driving you.
Is it, do you really love what you're doing or is it just, um, a place holder? Um, that's getting you by until you actually really do figure out what you want to do. And it's okay to have placeholders. It's okay to say, you know, I don't know that I want to do this forever, but it's okay for now. But you know what I will do, I'll continue to try to find what it is I am passionate about.
And then on my side, I'll pour my heart. Like football coaching, for example. Um, [00:24:00] you know what? I'm not at the level I want to be at, but when I'm not coaching people and I'm not running my supplement company, every single, or doing something with my family, every single ounce of free time I'm going to have, I'm going to put into becoming a better coach.
And it's like that. I'm passionate about that. It's Hey, you got to experiment. You got to see, you got to try different things. You know, I remember when I went to college, they said, well, 90 percent of people changed their major after two years. And I was like, that's not me. I'm going in sports medicine. No one's going to change my mind.
Oh, really? One year sports medicine. I didn't know that. Well, so I love the idea of sports medicine. And so I completed three years in it and all, and I took all the classes. Like I took like anatomy, kinesiology, physiology of exercise. I did all that in one semester and they were like, you're nuts. But I was like, you don't understand.
I love this stuff. So I took my four years worth of courses in three years. I just, but after three years. You know what I did? I said, this [00:25:00] isn't for me. And I just said, this isn't for me. Um, I'm just nothing wrong with this. I'm just, that's not my, I don't believe that's the route I want to take. So I changed my major just like everybody else changes their majors 90%.
And so, you know, you may have an idea of what you want to do. It may change if it changes, that's okay. That's all right. There's nothing wrong with that. But Experiment, do different things. I almost opened a gourmet coffee shop up in 1996, Ken. You know, the only reason I didn't is because it was so intimidating to me to be a 24 year old business owner.
Like I wasn't a seasoned businessman, so I just was intimidated by that. Now I got to deal with payroll, employee issues. You know the distribution chain like all these things that just seemed overwhelming to me. So I didn't follow through with it I thought it was my passion, but I didn't it wasn't Strong enough in me for me to say well, you know what i'm [00:26:00] uncomfortable with those things, but i'm going to overcome them Anyway, so You know, it wasn't the passion wasn't strong enough as much as I love coffee in the coffee business And and and the profit margin on an espresso based beverage.
I had to move on So I think it's important that people really experiment, try different things. You're going to find something that you'd really enjoy. I agree. And then man, it just, then it just comes down to what do you want to put into it? It's up to you. Yeah. What are you going to put into it? I agree.
You know what? I'm, I'm always curious as far as with this, you know, you're one of the top bodybuilding coaches in the world. You know, there's, you can't even fill up two hands with all the top people. And you're, you're one of them. When, when, when. When you have people that want to go into bodybuilding and they're at a regional level and they're trying to make national, you know, I talked to Scott Stevenson this morning.
We discussed that, you know, to the nth degree as far as, you know, the genetics, the ability, the, the [00:27:00] hormonal reception, you know, all of this and what it actually takes. Like, you know, you may everyone, I just have so many patients that are coming in, they go, I want to become a IFBB pro. And I go, do you know what that takes?
And also what's going to happen? Cause you're going to get to the top of amateur and then you're going to be at the bottom of the pro. What does it take in order? Like, I mean, if someone is a novice, what does it take in order to be at a national level and then from a national level to become an IPB pro and to become really good to, to basically make, you know, top 10.
Say in the Olympia or even at a national show because you know, just like business when you first start out, it's one aspect. And then as you start to grow, you know, you've got to bring in different people. You bring in HR, you bring in, you know, different people, managers and everything else. So the growth of the business changes as, as, as you do.
And I think it's very similar with bodybuilding. Is that what you've seen or are we [00:28:00] just dealing with genetic mutants that just show up and literally in a very short period of time, they take over. So the two things I want to touch on here, one of them is there used to be a clear path, um, back in the nineties and the two thousands, you did a local show, you did a state show, uh, you did a regional show, but you kind of worked your way up.
In other words, you didn't win the missed local city show and then go straight to nationals. That was a good way to get your butt kicked. So there was a clear path. There was a local show, a state show, a junior national level show, then a national level show. Um, there was a path and the, the, the path is a little blurred now.
And the reason why is there's so many people that want to do it overnight. I get so many people. It would, it would shock you that'll message me and say, Hey, John, I want to be an IFBB pro. And I think I can do it. And i'm like, okay, cool. How many shows have you won? You know, what did you win? Well, i've never competed.[00:29:00]
I'm like, um, but there, there is a path, you know, that I think logically you follow. So, um, Uh, that allows you to work up, you work your way up and, um, and I also think this, sometimes the best teachers, best teachings is when you get your butt kicked and, you know, for me, the first time I went to nationals.
You know, there were 42 guys in my class and only the top 15 make the finals. And I wasn't in the top 15. I got my butt kicked, but you know what it did? It helped me realize I'm not as good as I thought I was. There's another level to this that I'm not at. So I went back to the drawing board and said, listen, went into Mr.
Ohio, didn't really help me at the nationals. I got to go a lot. I got to get a lot better. Now you mentioned your thing, genetics. So there's a, when, when most people think of genetics, they think of, Their structure, the width of their clavicles, their pelvic girdle, was it narrow? [00:30:00] How do muscle bellies tie in together?
There's another set of genetics that matter to one of them is in your heart. Can you do what it takes to get down to 4 percent body fat when you're tired? When you're sitting on the couch and you have to pee. And you literally say, I can't even get up to pee. I'm just going to sit here and hold it as long as I can, because I'm so tired.
Can you handle that? Like, can you handle that when you can barely stay awake because you're so tired from dieting? Can you handle that when, when the pain sets in, when you're training? But your training partner says, sorry, you need to do 10 more reps. Can you get those reps? So there is a, there is a genetic factor called heart.
That is really important. It's really important. And guess what, Ken? That's the genetics that I had. I didn't have the wide clavicles. I didn't have the narrow pelvic girdle, but you know what I had? I had heart. And um, heart can take you a long, long way. Now, there's [00:31:00] other genetic components. How well does your body respond to training?
The fact of the matter is, like it or not, some people just respond better to training than others. It's just a fact. I could give two people the same program, have them eat the same thing, and one guy is probably going to do better than the other. That's just a fact. How do people, how much food can people eat, utilize, and digest?
That's You know, you can take all the digestive enzymes and probiotics whatever else you want to take Some people can only eat so much food. Some people can only utilize and digest so much food. How about the response to drugs? I can take two people, they can take the same amount of drugs, and one guy can absolutely blow up, and the other guy barely even looks like he did anything.
It's just a fact. How people respond to training, to chemicals. How do people recover? You can put two people through the same workout. One of them is crippled the next day. The other guy goes, that was cool. Can we do it again? Right. So [00:32:00] how do you respond to all these things? And the fact of the matter is again, I'm sorry.
I keep repeating that. It's just, um, no, keep doing those. It's just reality. It's just reality. It's, it's not, I'm not being an honest person. If I tell every single person that comes to me for training, oh yeah, you're going to be a pro because the fact of the matter is I know some of those people won't.
You know, I just, I just know they won't. So you gotta be very honest with them, you know, forgive me. I'm pro let's just get you to be the best you can possibly be. Hey, we'll see what happens. You know, we'll see what happens. So there's different genetic components. There's how much heart do you have?
There's how do you respond to chemicals? How do you respond to training? You know, um, how do your joints hold up? Can you handle heavy training or, or is your body going to break down? And if your body breaks down, Are you smart enough to know how to adjust your training to compensate for that? So there those are some of the things can kind of jump out off the top of my head Yeah, and I think it's really [00:33:00] important that people respect that and you know, I think you also I I think there's always you've always been really humble You also understand that what it actually takes to get onto the olympia stage Most people have no idea.
Like, I mean, it is one of the most difficult things that anyone could do because, and it's not just the training, it's just the dieting. It's just, you know, and try to how to, how to make it through the day, you know, when you're dieting and not, you know, kill everyone. Cause I mean, you're just so on edge, you know, and everything.
And unfortunately, and I think you've seen this and we've talked about this, Transcripts provided by Transcription Outsourcing, LLC. You know, it's not just another super drug or peptide or, you know, and it's just, it's just getting, are you seeing that it's getting more and more out of control? Um, yes and [00:34:00] no.
Yes. There are some coaches who think that's the answer. But I will say this. I've seen a renewed interest in health from some of the coaches out there. So now people are a little bit more aware. Well, man, maybe I should watch my blood pressure. Maybe that is a big deal. Maybe I should look at my AST and ALT after I do a cycle of orals.
Or, you know, maybe I need to look at my GFR for my kidneys, you know. Maybe I need a calcium score test to see if I got any calcification in my arteries building up from my heart. So I think there is a group of coaches that are, I think, doing a pretty good job of trying to keep people healthy. Um, and then I think there's still some coaches that now it's just the more chemicals you can pump in you, the better so, but I, but I am very happy to see it seems like coaches are getting a little bit better and more educated now at the end of the day, back to the previous conversation we [00:35:00] had, we're not cardiologists.
So it's not, okay, send me your echocardiogram results and I'm going to diagnose it for you and tell you, you know, no, no, you need to see a cardiologist. Um, and it goes back to the trust thing. Now, how many cardiologists actually kind of understand what we're doing, what we're going through and, you know, things like that.
But you can kind of tie in medical people to help you stay healthy. You know, um, one of my friends works with a kidney specialist. Um, just to make sure his kidneys are good. And a couple of my friends work with cardiologists that are pretty knowledgeable about bodybuilding. So, uh, but just in general to answer your question, I think it's probably 50, 50, Ken, you're still got the crazy wackos out there, but there is a little bit more education, which is encouraging to see.
Yeah, I'm starting to see that. Um, and I also seen that, that new, uh, Class that opened up, you know, the physique where there's a height and weight restriction Which really basically will mitigate it'll decrease [00:36:00] the amount of pharmacology that a number of these individuals will use Just because you can't you can't outgrow your weight class, you know your height class So I think that's yeah also and it's gotten back to a classic physique You know, you still have the big rammy and everything else, but you know, you're getting back to, you know, Chris, you know, um, the guy who won the physique, um, uh, Blum.
Lumad, yeah, yeah. Lumad, you know, he looks unbelievable and he's bringing back that great vacuum look, you know, the Frank Zane look. And that is actually more achievable. 'cause when you meet these guys, you know, personally Feeding. Feeding, yeah. When you meet these people personally, they're not that big.
They're not, they, they, they fit in clothes. Like, I mean, they're not freaky. Well, the guy that got second to him, Terrence is a client of mine and he weighed around 180 pounds. Yeah. Yeah. You can't be that big at one 80, right. You look phenomenal. And I think that's, that's the key, you [00:37:00] know, bigger is not necessarily better.
And a lot of people think that it is, but it's just trying to bring in that look, which is really, really difficult. You know, to try and present, you know, in that for the different trainers and the strength coaches and all that, what advice would you give them as far as on how to rebuild their business, especially if they've been really struggling?
Well, we're feeding my dog here. Yeah, that's fine. Okay. Give me a minute. And then put a, then put a whole egg on my, my dog loves whole eggs. Sometimes I, sometimes I give him sardines. He loves sardines. Okay. Now, no more noise. Um, so trainers that are struggling, um, the biggest thing is that how can they build relationships?
And especially with, you know, you have to put out the effort to find people. [00:38:00] First of all, you have to do some research and. I've, I've got to think about that, Ken, because I've known so many people for so long, I'm trying to think back. Well, how did I do that? And I think it probably started in like 1999. I went to see Serrano after trying, stop making noise.
Um, like in 1999, I saw Serrano and after trying for probably 2 years to get in the same, I finally got in the same. And then, then he had his network. So then I met other people and then, you know, Dave Tate and I are friends. So Dave has his network and you know, then I met JL and you know, I met, you know, I trained with Louie, you know, so we had these networks, you meet people and they open up a network, so now you're going to laugh.
Now, one of my mentors is a football coach out in California who's one of the top offensive coaches in the nation. So now I'm kind of opening up my football network. I'm kind of starting, you know, from scratch and now I'm doing the same process in [00:39:00] football. So I'm finding people that are smarter than me, the no more than I do.
And I humbly approach him. I humbly talked to him and like this guy was very, very kind, very generous with his time. And I think he. I think, uh, we had some good meetings. So now he's my mentor. Now he's, he's, um, he's very, very good at what he does. So, you know, in terms of meeting people, you got to do your research, you got to figure out who's very respected, um, who's knowledgeable.
And once you can like, kind of find a couple of people like that, then you can build on it. But you know, what I always tell people can is just start simple. Just figure out kind of what you want to do and find somebody who's really good at it and just build a relationship with them. Just start there.
Just start there. Just, okay. I want to be a great strength coach. Okay. Who are some great strength coaches? Let me see if I can build a relationship with one of them. And maybe I'm going to have to [00:40:00] pay them to mentor me. Maybe I'm going to have to buy one hour sessions with them at 200 an hour, one hour per month.
It's up to you. How much, what do you want to do? How far do you want to go? Me? Like that football coach. He could have told me, John. I'm going to charge you 500 bucks an hour. And I would have said, where do I pay? You want me to PayPal you? Do you want me to Venmo you? Do you want me to send you a check?
Because it's that important to me to get better. So just try to figure out what is you really like and do your research and find somebody really good. And then try to build a relationship with them. Just start there, keep it simple. And then you'll probably, if after a certain amount of time, you'll probably figure out, wow, this person has a network too.
And, you know, but, you know, I think find somebody who's really good at what you want to do and just start there. They have probably made a lot of mistakes, if they're like me, I've made a lot of mistakes and they've probably learned a lot from them. And sometimes when you're, you're new at this, it's nice that, you know, you kind of have to make mistakes.
It's kind of, that's how you learn, [00:41:00] right? You, when you lose a football game, it's a great opportunity to figure out what you did wrong and get better, as opposed to winning a game where you just say, well, we did everything right. But it's also nice to learn from someone else's mistakes. So you don't repeat the same thing.
You know, when I, when I was looking for a mentor for my business, I specifically went to Dave Tate, you know, and I asked him a number of questions and he, like as a relationship developed business wise, he would tell me. This didn't work. Here's what happened. This didn't work. So I was able, I feel like I was able to avoid some pitfalls that I might have fallen into simply by finding someone more knowledgeable than me, better than me.
Now, of course, I made a lot of mistakes too with my business, but, but I think my point, Ken, is just. Find make the effort to find somebody who can really help you and and just man dive in, you [00:42:00] know, just you know Yeah, I mean that's that's the way to do it be a student to be a student So, you know like the example the football coach that helps me I think if I just sit around and just expect him to teach me everything He's people probably get tired of that.
But when I say hey Sean, I was reading these things I was studying this What do you think about this? Now he's like, okay, this kid's trying, like he's trying, he wants to get better. I think people respect that. If I have someone come to me and they're saying, I was thinking about this, this, this, and this, and here's what I'm doing, and here's what I'm thinking, am I on the right path?
I get more, I get more excited as a mentor than someone who says, Hey, I need you to teach me how to get people in shape. Right. All right. Well, you know that that's going to be your attitude. Just come to me and you want me to just spoon feed you everything without you doing any thinking. I'm probably going to say, no, thank you.
Find somebody else. Right. You know, I want somebody who's really [00:43:00] passionate, who's really doing their homework. That's the kind of relationships I would want. So for someone out there looking, Make sure you have that mindset, you know, I agree so much, you know, to try and find a mentor, you know, to, to develop, you know, different aspects that you are and, and also like, I mean, just yourself, you know, this year, you've done over 40 clinics yourself.
So when, when people see that enthusiasm and that focus are going, yeah, this guy's all in, like, I mean, chips are all in, he's, he's willing to do it. And I think that's what we're all looking for, you know, and we have the people there that think that they should be up on stage instead of you. And, you know, they're not a good student.
I think a lot of people don't know how to listen. They want to reaffirm their own ideas versus what can I learn from this person? And it's really interesting, all the different top strength coaches. that I've been, you know, interviewing like a Christian Thibodeau, you know, he says he hires two different strength coaches a year to train him.
He pays them, you get, you know, they [00:44:00] get the routine and everything else. And I go, Christian, you're one of the top strength coaches. Why? He says, I can only understand their program if I actually do it and I'm willing to pay And everyone sees it differently. I don't have all the answers, but I do have some and I can integrate some stuff and then put the other stuff into it.
So we can be such good, uh, learners, you know, students. And I think people have a hard time trying to be a student. Yeah. I kind of approach when I get around really smart people, I take the approach that I don't know anything. I just enter that conversation with, I don't know anything, and then I just see where it takes me.
Um, we know, you know, so, yeah, I agree. You know, it's, and you know, while your, your neighbor is Dr. Eric Serrano. So that makes it a little bit more humbling, you know, his ability to put things together. John, thank you so much. [00:45:00] This has been amazing. I really appreciate all the knowledge and the wisdom that you've given us.
And especially over the years, you've been such a, you know, huge support for Swiss and everyone else that is out there. Are you still taking clients on? No, I haven't actually, I haven't been able to really take anybody on this year. Like I, you know, I, unfortunately I've got probably a 30, 40 person waiting list right now.
So, okay. Um, but if, but if they want to see, you know, some of your materials or your supplements, you want to talk about that a little bit. Well, yeah, so, you know, one of the things, um, I've really put a lot of effort into, Ken, is my YouTube. Um, we started about four years ago doing a video every day for 90 days.
Then we went to five days a week. And then the last two years we do three videos a week. Um, and we've been doing that, or we have a little over half a million subscribers now, and we have a lot of material in there. If somebody just wants free information. [00:46:00] Training nutrition. We have over a thousand videos on there.
That's absolutely free on my YouTube. It's mountain dog one. So I think that's a good resource for people, you know, if you just if you're looking for a lot of valuable information, um, and, um, You know, outside of that, my supplement company granted supplements. I'm very, very proud of, uh, we've been, this is our, uh, we're in our fifth year now.
I'm very proud of that company. Everything I do, I try to do first class that applies to my cup, to my supplements as well. Nothing cheap here. Uh, I'm not a cheap coach. My supplements aren't cheap. Nothing I do is cheap. Um, and other than that can, I think that's pretty much it, you know, um, Between the coaching and the supplements and football coaching man.
I got my hands for now and we got a new puppy here So i've got uh, he's he's running around now. I've got a puppy. He's an american bully. Oh, wow. He's um, He's uh, let me see if I can pick him up [00:47:00] Do you see oh he's a cutie Oh, my gosh. Look at the big boy. Yeah, he's a big boy. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. Animals are furry angels.
I'll tell you. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I spend more time on, um, the Dodo. You ever, do you see the Dodo on Facebook? Yeah. Yeah. I know. Oh, my God. Great ones. Oh, man. I watch more animal videos, I think, than anything. Me too. Me too. John, always a pleasure. Thank you so much for spending time with us here at Swiss 2021. I'm very grateful.
I know everyone watching this also is, especially since your reputation precedes you. And you're just such a nice, authentic, you know, individual, you know, even as the ultimate warrior comes out at times, but, but the whole thing is that, you know, you're, you're, you're, you're very focused, you're very, [00:48:00] and you're, you're authentic and you really know what, what it takes in order to rise to the best and you are one of the best.
So I thank you. I hope, you know, the borders open up soon. We can run Swiss, uh, I'm not sure if it'll be this year, you know, just with what's going on. The border is still closed, but love to have you back up, uh, here at the live Swiss symposium when we do it again. Yeah. Oh, that'd be phenomenal. Yes, sir. Okay.
Thanks so much, John. Okay. Thank you, Ken.
